Standard Now

[Matt Moate]

Two reasons Chris

1) It's actually very difficult to play. The choice of when to use harrow to ramp or win is tight. Matt M lost game 1 at the GPT to me as I ramped to 4 mountains and a forest in play by the end of turn 3/4 with a Valukut in play. Game 2 and 3 I lost due to never finding a Valukut or search artifact to go get one.

2) The other tier 1 decks will beat it sensless with a properly prepared sideboard - Convincing Mirage wrecks you in a U/W match up, Vampires and Jund can hit you hard with discard. All of them also have access to Tectonic Edge now which I expect will be more and more played with the new man-lands.

I can’t speak for how hard the Valakut deck is to play, but to comment on my games with naya against Matt H at the GPT:
I misplayed terribly in game 1 and used knight of the reliquary to tutor for the mana I wanted to develop my position, thinking I could get the tectonic edge next turn and I’d be better positioned to close from there; Matt managed to trigger two Valakuts four times each the following turn off a harrow which I hadn’t accounted for and killed me from about 18-19 life.
Post board my game plan needed to focus on getting life gain active and developing an aggressive board position. One of the games I got down a fast baneslayer and got out of range. I have enough card advantage to overload Matt’s removal and he can’t deal damage fast enough to race me so I think a fast baneslayer that isn’t immediately answered is a huge problem for his deck. The other game Matt grabbed some extra mountains from harrowing a forest and left himself screwed for green thereafter which I think cost him the game.
The feel I had from the game was that he probably has the advantage in the matchup overall, but I do have the tools needed to win games, even in game 1 if I know how to play the match properly. I think the post board games are considerably better for me (maybe 50-50), but still come down to naya hitting one of a few specific cards – a typical moderately aggressive hand really won’t cut it.
I would assume that the U/W decks 4 main deck tectonic edges and masses of card drawing will make it heavily favoured against valakut. I think the mixture of life gain and discard should make this a pretty easy match for vampires too. I would guess jund would be a bit vulnerable as it’s a little slow, but given a fairly aggressive hand with a blightning or two, I’d guess at it having a shot at maybe 40% of the games.
I think Matt’s on the money when he says the tier 1 decks can all come with board for it, but I think all of them apart from jund actually have some key cards main deck. It looks to me like the valakut deck won’t have the consistency it needs to be a tier 1 deck, but I’m sure it will have favourable matches against a lot of the tier 2 decks.

[Matt Moate]

Having spent a few hours practicing the Vamps vs UW match up last night. I think before board it's more like 60-40 in favor of vamps, and 80-20 after boarding. Bloodghast is a huge problem for UW, all the discard makes life really tricky too.
Although maybe I'm doing something wrong, UW is overly hard to play…

Without wishing to be unfair, you were playing against Curly, and he hasn't played a lot for a long time, yet he was still beating you a lot Ron; I think the received wisdom that vampires are favoured in this matchup is probably just correct. Not to say you can't improve the matchup by learning it better, but I think it's just a hard matchup.

[Matt Moate]

Also I don't think Vampires is Tier 1 as it dosen't have a good game v Jund, Naya is not exactly comfortable and as Tom said UW is only better than 50/50 after board I think it relies to much on Nocturnus personaly a list with a couple of Abyssal Persecutors might change this but at the moment I would say it's the best Teir 2 deck kinda Tier 1.5 if there was one.
Ed

I think I've played 7 games against vampires with boss naya and won 5 of them. It isn't an easy match for me. I think the nocturnus is absolutely critical in this match and the lack of removal in game 1 for naya is a big problem as it means a nocurnus will often win the game for vampires. Post board things improve a lot for naya. Another erratic issue is how big the wild nacatls are. If they are 3/3s early the match gets much easier. The other key card seems to be mind sludge, which is key to determining whether the vampires player can try to play attrition or whether they need to try to race.

I don't think persecutors are a good addition to vampires. The lists are solid as they are and the deck has a good game against almost averything. The only significantly bad matchup is jund. I think it wasn't tier 1 when jund was the only deck, but now the format is more varied and vampires beats the control deck, vampires is a good option.

[Ed the Pirate]

I think I've played 7 games against vampires with boss naya and won 5 of them. It isn't an easy match for me. I think the nocturnus is absolutely critical in this match and the lack of removal in game 1 for naya is a big problem as it means a nocurnus will often win the game for vampires. Post board things improve a lot for naya. Another erratic issue is how big the wild nacatls are. If they are 3/3s early the match gets much easier. The other key card seems to be mind sludge, which is key to determining whether the vampires player can try to play attrition or whether they need to try to race.

I don't think persecutors are a good addition to vampires. The lists are solid as they are and the deck has a good game against almost averything. The only significantly bad matchup is jund. I think it wasn't tier 1 when jund was the only deck, but now the format is more varied and vampires beats the control deck, vampires is a good option.

Yeah I think your right on the Naya match up as our games showed. The Cats got most of the work done in the second game. I have changed my list a bit to incorperate the new Meta game and I can see the improvements already. It still has the I have no Nocturnus I can't take the initiative problem but with the edition of Kalastria Highborn and Grim Discovery the problem can be remidied with playing a longer game. Also the Addition of Abyssal Persecutor I would say was wrong on my part given how good Grim Discovery is. If I could fit them in I would run 4 main makes the deck so much more versatile.

Ed

[Matt Moate]

And another thing…
I tested the Naya vs. U/W control matchup with Richard for a few hours last night. His list is an exact copy of Nassif’s/Chapin’s (I think). Mine is like LSVs but +1 Stirring Wildwood, +1 Raging Ravine, -1 Birds of Paradise, -1 Rootbound crag.
Pre board seems pretty favourable for the naya deck. Post board seemed favourable for the control deck (though I was testing luminarch ascensions instead of manabarbs, which was probably an error).

I think both decks need to mulligan fairly aggressively here. The naya deck needs to resolve something that matters within the couple of turns or it won’t get the clock going fast enough in the critical stage before the first wrath/active colonnade. The control player needs a way out from early aggression and to at least have some white mana to make the opponent play around a wrath (if you see a control player hit 3-4 lands with no white source I think it’s time to put as much into play as possible.

I think the naya plan isn’t to rush as much as possible into play to force a quick wrath but to apply enough pressure that if they make jace that either a bounce or a scry/fateseal still sees jace die. I tried to save bloodbraids for after wrath, to deal with an active jace or to go for an alpha strike where possible; this seemed to work well. If I don’t have the lands or the knight of the reliquary to go for a knight on turn 2 then on turn 1 I prefer to make a wild nacatl to a mana guy in this match. Unlike the grixis control match, the equipment package is pretty strong here as both the sledge and the collar mean a lot of my guys can run into colonnades and the sledge in particular allows me to play one threat at a time. I think my extra man lands are strong here too, but the tectonic edges mean I can’t rely on them too heavily.

After testing the luminarch ascensions, it seemed they come online a little too slow and often can be kept at bay by colonnades. I like that I can get them into play under counter mana (unlike manabarbs), and they can win games alone. Baneslayers out of the board for the control deck seem like a huge problem for naya. I think with hindsight I need to board path to exile in for this match as without them the baneslayers seemed to spell disaster.

[Tom]

Mine is like LSVs but +1 Stirring Wildwood, +1 Raging Ravine, -1 Birds of Paradise, -1 Rootbound crag.

@Matt - Just in case you missed it LSV posted an updated boss naya deck list with a few tweaks on Sunday.

http://strategy.channelfireball.com/featured-articles/initial-technology-a-knight-to-remember/

It's about 2/3rds the way down the article. He also gives some good tips and side boarding ideas.

[Blood Angel]

Here's the decklist mentioned above, since I'm pretty much sure MM won't be able to access the site from work

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scute Mob
1 Baneslayer Angel

4 Lightning Bolt

2 Oblivion Ring

1 Behemoth Sledge
1 Basilisk Collar

2 Ajani Vengeant

4 Arid Mesa
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Terramorphic Expanse
5 Forest
2 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Raging Ravine
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Sunpetal Grove

Sideboard
4 Cunning Sparkmage
3 Baneslayer Angel
2 Dauntless Escort
2 Manabarbs
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Tectonic Edge

[Matt Moate]

Thanks chaps. I'll check the detail of the article at home.

The list reflects some of my experiences and experiments with it... Elspeth is the weakest main deck card and you want more manlands. I also tried sideboard pridemages to start with, but haven't been all that convinced with them. I was toying with the idea of switching the oblivion rings to paths to speed up the deck and handle manlands better. I've never gone for the extra equipment sideboard package either.

[JSJ]

I still make a case for Grixis control. I've played 15 matches in three tournaments with it recently. I've lost to RDW once, Jund once and UW control once. Beaten all others including Boss Naya and Vampires at least twice. Vampires, which is meant to be a hard match up, really isn't.

RDW is definitely a problem, I've changed my sideboard significantly for this. Not sure about UW. I think UW is probably better in the "mirror" match, but I don't like it so much against the field. It is certainly a harder deck to play.

Cruel Ultimatum is by no means key. Having said that I am not complaining if I get to resolve it. The key card is Jace 2.0. There are so many ways to win the game with this card. Basically if you can make one stick it is hard to lose. Cast on an empy board, or even with one creature on the field, it can often look after itself, even without counter spell back up. I prefer Grixis as my 56 card Jace support engine as it can run an insane ammount of spot removal and sweepers and doesn't tax my small brain as much as UW. Also Calcite Snappers can turn the deck very quickly into a passable aggro deck.

Tectonic edge has never been an issue except versus UW control. Not really fussed if you lose a turn and set me back a turn. Versus UW though Richard correctly used them to kill my manlands, rather than to try and control my mana, and that hurt. Also, apart from UW who runs it. It is very difficult to slot into Vampires.

[eisenhorn]

I feel vampires key is Kalastria Highbourn and grim discovery, i found it a good combo and can cause some headache's.
UW im just not sure what to do in the matchup.
Naya i want a better board plan and im adjusting cards to make the matchup a tad better.

Cruel Ultimatum is by no means key. Having said that I am not complaining if I get to resolve it.

i think this is the key if you want to play grixis control, it needs to run well in the games you dont draw cruel and smash them with it when you do and resolve it.

[DrLove]

My impressions of standard from conversations and watching tonight.

W/U control -
1) Disgustingly bad recent performance in tourny according to Ron and was the 3rd most represented deck. 9th and 54th.
2) PT Results - the 4 players that played it are among the strongest control players in the world.
AND played a deck no one expected (Think this fact more important than 1st since oppostion were pros).
3) Comparing the U/W keeper decks that i remember in Type 2. (I think W/U control in timespiral? - can't comment here)
Advantages - Jace 2.0
Disadvantages - Worse counterspells + card draw (ignoring jace). Late game mindspring wins.
Removal similiar - M Coup an improvement.
4) Watching Ron - in one awful game for him, it felt like he was playing a 3 colour deck because tectonic edge
meant he did not have UU for Cancel (raspberry in background). However, these must be played because of manlands.
I suspect deck needs UU and / or WW quick. Early tectonic edge gets in the way. Ron and Rich would be better placed to comment.
5) Allied colours - means fetch lands not quite so good. Don't know how many it plays.
6) Enemy planeswalkers a problem. You have Oring, but so do all the other white decks.
7) And the big one --- aggro creatures are so much better now.

Conclusion - Doubtful Jace 2.0 can make up for all the disadvantages and sometimes you won't see him.
This is probably not the right deck to play if you want to win.

@Ron - Your initial prediction that path won't be played is now correct. All bow before the Ronness.
O Ring + Journey played instead. Therefore M. Pulse better.

Re Open the Vaults raw power conversation.
One Open the vaults netted > 190 life = many artifacts returned (including 2 courier's capsule), + Oring + Journey.
Beat that Mr Ultimatium.

Initial reaction - Surprised by Filigree Angel dudeness. I wish i had not dismissed it 1 year ago.

Incidently - deck was W/U/b - and no real mana probs.
Compare U/W control. Not saying W/U/b is a better deck just comparing mana issues
of 3 colour with no tectoninc and better fetch, and U/W with techtonic and poor fetch. Possible the 3 colour flows better?
Ideally I'd want to fit in an edge or two, but wanted to see how mana was on first test.

@Rich - your deck needs an answer for Inkwell Leviathan.

Good luck in Southampton.
Reports wanted.

[eisenhorn]

My impressions of standard from conversations and watching tonight.

W/U control -
1) Disgustingly bad recent performance in tourny according to Ron and was the 3rd most represented deck. 9th and 54th.
2) PT Results - the 4 players that played it are among the strongest control players in the world.
AND played a deck no one expected (Think this fact more important than 1st since oppostion were pros).
3) Comparing the U/W keeper decks that i remember in Type 2. (I think W/U control in timespiral? - can't comment here)
Advantages - Jace 2.0
Disadvantages - Worse counterspells + card draw (ignoring jace). Late game mindspring wins.
Removal similiar - M Coup an improvement.
4) Watching Ron - in one awful game for him, it felt like he was playing a 3 colour deck because tectonic edge
meant he did not have UU for Cancel (raspberry in background). However, these must be played because of manlands.
I suspect deck needs UU and / or WW quick. Early tectonic edge gets in the way. Ron and Rich would be better placed to comment.
5) Allied colours - means fetch lands not quite so good. Don't know how many it plays.
6) Enemy planeswalkers a problem. You have Oring, but so do all the other white decks.
7) And the big one --- aggro creatures are so much better now.

Ive now seen the bad performance now from richmond and im surprised that 66 guys cant put the deck in with more than 2 o.k finishes, its very odd to me. I do accept that when youve got Patrick Chapin, Gabriel Nassif and Mark Herberholz as your main lot your going to do well. I do think the deck will occasionally colour screw itself but i didnt think it happened too much, if really very much at all. I think you really need to pick what you counter and this can be tough. It also seems like you dont want to jace too early against people holding there bloodbraid elf. Allied colours are fine as it gives you man lands and i always felt they could answer my garruk but yes, creatures are better.

Re Open the Vaults raw power conversation.
One Open the vaults netted > 190 life = many artifacts returned (including 2 courier's capsule), + Oring + Journey.
Beat that Mr Ultimatium.

I cast cruel, picking up a baneslayer angel drawing into the essense scatter i had not tested which countered his top decked gatekeeper because i ripped his hand to 0 and killed his last dude, the life totals were also good enough.

The sentance above involved baneslayer angel, surely it wins right?

And indeed, good luck though i would enjoy company in reading i obviously hope you qualify.

[DrLove]

I was expecting a cruel / open the vaults challange. Bring it on.

1) Returning to the U /W mana issues.
Looks like you can play 3 colour decks, that can use person lands and better fetches, but probably can't
run 4 tectonic edge. Two probably no bother.

2) When watching - the new draw spell 1U sorcery, was not that impressed. Yes it drew 2 cards most times
i saw it, but the important card - ie the non land shown to me meant i had free information to play with.
This extra card is not quite as good as normal. Perhaps this should try to be combined with landfall?

3) Flash freeze main deck - now wider meta - this looks weak. 3 Colour control gives possibilty of not having to
play narrow cards in main.

4) Cancel (raspberry) . Again three colour offers option not to play medicore card.

Just feel deck has v.strong cards, but let down by 10-12? medicore cards. Perhaps with slight mana issues
with the UU / WW problem. Think a similar 3 colour deck may be better.

[eisenhorn]

I was expecting a cruel / open the vaults challange. Bring it on.

1) Returning to the U /W mana issues.
Looks like you can play 3 colour decks, that can use person lands and better fetches, but probably can't
run 4 tectonic edge. Two probably no bother.

I think id run three with the fourth in the board even in the UW control deck. Im not sure what the third colour adds though, if your adding black you gain removal, red gives the old UWr american control, and i dont see people still playing that so it cant be grand. What do you think a third colour adds.

2) When watching - the new draw spell 1U sorcery, was not that impressed. Yes it drew 2 cards most times
i saw it, but the important card - ie the non land shown to me meant i had free information to play with.
This extra card is not quite as good as normal. Perhaps this should try to be combined with landfall?

I think its really good as it can draw you spell like lands, and a spell, sure the opponent having info isnt the best but when you hit the motherload of land and remembered youd have had to draw through it you dont mind it so much.

3) Flash freeze main deck - now wider meta - this looks weak. 3 Colour control gives possibilty of not having to
play narrow cards in main.

Im not sure if you can main flashfreeze, its really bad in the mirror and against vampires and i didnt think it did the best vs WW. Not sure what youd use instead though, an extra of both m10 counters?

[Scytale]

Flashfreeze main can be awkward, but Jund and Naya are two top decks that will be massively represented at any proper tournament, thus i have no concerns running them main. It's only two copies, and there's always a chance you can brainstorm and shuffle them away.

Richard